With the Luxman amp, there was sufficient bass power to make the giants sound menacing, from the first act to the last: The bass drum that signals the death of Fasolt (sorry if that's a spoiler) had excellent impact and very good depth, albeit a bit of overhang, and for whatever reason, the sounds of the performers' footsteps on the stage were much more prominent than through other speakers. He brought it up, but I said the same thing on a different sight about the Klipsch Forte. Usually you avoid that by raising the crossover point, which isn't the most efficient use of the horn. >> Get on the mailing list so you're up on key moments during the campaign at http://dopefromhope.com. The corner still serves as an extension of the low frequency horn, improving low frequency performance. During the next couple of weeks, I found much to admire in the performance of the Klipschorns, which reproduced vocals with exceptional clarity and lack of coloration, and whose stereo imaging and soundstaging capabilities were shockingly good for such wide loudspeakers. The MRSP for the X11i earbuds is $350, BLINQ had them for closer to $100. Of course, that is often sufficent "evidence" for the claimants. The darTZeel amp -high distortion, best amp ever. What a gutsy conclusion. While I understand the practicalities, this should be mentioned in the review. The operating words here are ease, ultra-low distortion (for bass reproduction) - even at close to full chat, and room-filling envelopment. They're not. !....this is crazy. In order to reproduce those peaks without clipping, one's amplifier would need to be capable of a peak power output about 160 times higher than that required for the average listening level. I hope someone had the ability to market it. I am surprised Klipsch allowed you test them in that room with the speakers only 8' apart with listening distance even less. The quality continues with AudioQuest Type 4 with Star-Quad Geometry internal wiring featuring carbon-loaded insulation, nitrogen-injected PE, and solid long-grain copper conductors. The biggest and most famous of these arrived in 1946: the still-popular Klipschorn, for which Paul Klipsch was awarded nearly two dozen patents. -Passive speakers are hardly a comprehensively understood phenomenon, and they're even less a well-developed phenomenon in the casual eye, which casts doubt on the assumption they will automatically be surpassed by moving their filters into another type. And now more complaints at Asylum, in thread "Klipshorn's/Art Dudley". Phew !!!! You can build a far better speaker than a K-horn for relatively very little money......planars, like mine, horn speakers, dynamic drivers, etc. The Klipschorn was designed to fit into … Klipsch Audio quality is Stunning, staggering even beautiful. I visited a vinyl bar, In Sheep's Clothing, in the arts district near downtown LA yesterday. That's one approach to speaker design that has stood the test of time, but the "classical" approach I'm referring to is more Floyd Toole. The Dudley quote is mostly as half-baked or uninformed as everything else he wrote about loudspeakers. (You actually do not want to get into matters of distortion.). Not one single Rival customer would have me tweak the design of their speakers and therefore change the sound, in order for them to test better. The Klipschorn can now be toed in or out to obtain the best imaging. Khorns need to be in corners. There are plenty of them out there to choose from. How much headroom is necessary, one may ask, if it's even ground covered by most audiophiles in the pursuit of high fidelity? Like versions I and II, the Forte III couples to the floor via a 1" wood base to which four 1/8"-thick round metal footers are attached, one for each corner. I spent about 1 year between 1990-1991 looking for a house that would accommodate them, no small feat in So. Below are some ways you can connect: >> If you'd like to know more or want to request a press kit, drop us a line at info@dopefromhope.com. And that's the way all mags should be, not just the reviewers opinion. Realistic sound reproduction, or certainly its approximation hinges on physics of which size, sensitivity and ease are core parameters, and I don't see any of those apply to the AR1 and its same-principle descendants. • Once you have addressed the temporal issues with DSP, the remaining speaker and room related issues are much easier to address with EQ in DSP. - Buy a copy of the previously mentioned compilation of Paul's "Dope from Hope". ".... to deceive and confuse" ......... Oh please JA1, don't run for public office ........ We need you here at Stereophile :-) ....... ..don't do it at all. And they were playing. This is no small thing. Apparently hell hath no fury like an audiophile whose speaker he likes the sound of is shown to have sub-optimal measured performance :-). Needless to say this construction cost significantly more than the speakers. I saw Paul in a sound room working. And deep bass was still AWOL. Much of what has been learned in the years since the Khorns "inception" back in the 40's is integrated in newer horn designs that need not comply with a vintage approach, and that truly gives you more of the ability to have your cake as well as eating it too. Her voice, like the violins in the Beethoven quartet described above, was generously but not excessively textured, its uniquenesses preserved but not exaggerated. What are you trying to prove, decade after decade ? Literally named for the swollen salivary glands they sort of resemble, Roy Delgado's patented Mumps are curved 1" ridges that round off the interior corners within the throat of the K-703-M midrange horn. Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile Posted by George S. Roland (A ) on August 15, 2019 at 07:57:28 Having once owned a pair of K-Horns (and Cornwalls), I read with great interest the review of the new Klipschorn in Stereophile. And that's just the word: tradeoff, the one term that Mr. Villchur wouldn't admit to with his invention. At least offer an in-house designed and optimized optional unit. We only lack the light to show us the way... Are you willing to share an example of a specific design choice you made that resulted in worse measurements and better sound? That's a subjective evaluation. That's how long American audio company Klipsch has been in operation, and it's also how long the Arkansas outfit has been selling its flagship Klipschorn … But to my point. The tweeters were remounted all the way in the back of the speaker right above the midrange compression driver to time align the mids and highs. Be respectful, keep it civil and stay on topic. The company was founded by Paul W. Klipsch in Hope, Arkansas, in 1946 to manufacture the corner-loaded horn speaker that was to become known as the "Klipschorn." The Altec guys noticed Paul so they turned down the volume and motioned him closer as he obviously had some questions. Horns, tapped horns, FLH's and 6th order bandpass iterations typically with pro drivers from 15-21" - all of this may seem like madness in a domestic environment (and believe me, potentially it is), but truly this is about the best quality bass reproduction that can be had, and subs that integrates the best way with the mains - including not least high sensitivity designs like the La Scala. Body—especially body. That's just a shameful lack of vision for such a storied company. http://www.burwenaudio.com/Sound_System.html. I would add to that though: shame on Klipsch for not seeing that themselves. I Don't know exactly what aspect of sub 50Hz you're addressing here (other than "realism," but more on that later), whether it's the overall nature of bass reproduction and/or whether it concerns the Klipschorn's hardly extending down that low (it seems their "hard deck" sits at some 35-40Hz). Stereophile Reviews New Klipsch Forte, Klipschorn. Room was 29' x 16.5' with 14' peak - listening position ~19 feet from those directional horns! After owning K-horns, owing Quad 63s seemed an ideal relief. There's money to be saved with DIY, and finding the right design from named individuals is a great way to go with this segment of subs. Here's the language from the manual: "The Klipschorn (AK6) has a fully enclosed low frequency horn and no longer has to be flush to the corner in order to operate properly. In a big room, the timing issues are masked by the room reflections, etc. However, the sound I'm after (what I call good sound) and good measurements often diverge at some point in the development process, and I'll always let measurements go where they go in favor of the sound I'm after. Passive cannot. years now. It was a Saturday morning, and the Klipschorn's generally excellent way with this music—no speaker in my home has better put across the color, texture, and tension in the sound of the cellos and double basses under Solti—compelled me to once again listen to the whole thing through. The other issue of time delay between units can be corrected and it would be good for Klipsch to be the ones to offer a box solution for their customers, but that is a marketing decision they will have to address. Tom Danley of DSL has given the DIY-community more or less carte blanche to develope their own tapped horns, and there are a range of designs here that are freely shared by developers like "lilmike" and Josh Ricci (look over at databass.com) for others to build. Here, too, the lower notes had the heft that was missing when driving the AK6s with my Shindo. The sound was great. recommends the Klipschorn be placed in the proximity of a corner. First let me be clear..it's tough measuring a corner horn like this. For best results, Klipsch highly Flatten out the bass of the Rival? If you're willing to sacrifice extension in exchange for sensitivity there's also the TH118, which is good for some 30-35Hz. Everything old is new again Personally I wouldn't go with a tune below 20Hz (which is rare anyway, and leads to monstrous-size cabs). Klipsch had updated the iconic Klipschorn, the first speaker founder Paul W. Klipsch designed and built in 1946-47 and the “only speaker in the world to be in continuous production (and remain relatively unchanged) for more than 70 years.”. Neither on its own gives the full picture of a product's performance. My only quibble would be the normalization he uses for lateral off axis. That is to say: a bigger air radiation area and much higher efficiency equates into less cone movement and lower distortion. You know, basically my garage system ;). So the speakers were in the corners of the W but still pointed straight forward. I will never forget the sound of the drums then the bass and guitar come in and just exploded. I'll give you a couple of examples of divergent agendas. You are not disparaging. Now they at least know that the amp they use will matter greatly. The proviso being that the room has to sound good before you put the speakers in it. They're toooooooo much for any Audiophile's listening room, bet they need 2,000 square feet with 30 foot ceilings. In this age of cheap silicon and relatively mature off-the-shelfs, c'mon Klipsch, get with the damn program for a $15k speaker! The Klipschorn was such a revolutionary speaker, it can still hold its own with some of the best of today’s home theater speakers. In his own words: And what did we give up to gain such easy access to all those things? Tweeter and midrange drivers are, respectively, Klipsch's new K-100-TI 1" titanium-diaphragm high-frequency compression driver loaded with an ABS Tractrix K-79-T horn and a new K-70 1.75" titanium-diaphragm midrange compression driver on a new Tractrix K-703-M horn. If body, soul, and musicality were essentially to be found in a lab, things would be different. The time-alignment was a noticeable improvement. Whether DSP is easier is therefore moot. Everyone who reads my loudspeaker reviews knows: I wish box speakers did not sound like box speakers. I had the JBL 4367 in mind for the same $15k. RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - George S. Roland 11:02:31 08/16/19 (0) RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - Steve O 11:25:20 08/15/19 RE: Responses to the Klipschorn review in Stereophile - George S. Roland 09:33:18 08/20/19 (0) The weirdness of which defies rationalization - mhardy6647 14:26:54 08/16/19 Well, come on, if the benchmark is realism of sound reproduction below ~50Hz, then there are no contest and no discussion --- the AR1 and its many descendants (waning in these recent decades of vented-design ascendancy) have achieved with ease where Klipschorns fail, for every minute of those 70 years. The spectral plot shows a lot of break up above 4kHz. I was never all that happy with the amp, the dude with the wire [sorry, can't recall his name, he lived in Berkeley and wasn't Ric Schultz, another 'wirehead'] happened to have a pair of Kilpschorns in an [tiny] acoustically inappropriate room. That is the case with the measurements that accompany the magazine's reviews. Bob Reina has been doing more than his share of reviewing inexpensive speakers in the past couple of years. That first evening of listening was a mixed bag. (footnote 3) It was. Yeah, this has always been the standard response --- look at how big and sensitive our product is, their cone movement, yada yada. I really enjoy the LS50 too. Acquired the 60th Anniversary KHorns some years ago and had to really work on them. Attached is a review of the Klipsch Cornwall from 1999. -Fortunately others continue on, with excellent effect. But that's not "wrong" either. First is the dac measurement of a -90.3 dB1K Hz sine wave with a 16 bit signal and then again at 24 bit. KEF understands that and they know more about speaker design than anyone who writes here. Unless we grasp all aspects of loudspeaker behavior we can't begin to assert that DSP is the panacea armchair advocates claim. Neither can my project studio in my dining room. The man would surely respond to this tiny room review as pure "Bullshit" ;-) Please consider re-doing this review in a room appropriate for this speaker. I'm fortunate to have reviewed in recent years not one but. timpani. Review: Klipsch Klipschorn Speaker. Therefore, amplitude responses have without question become sighted bias. I agree with the person above who was suspicious about Art's room size (no matter that Klipsch 'approved') being to small to let the timing issues integrate more favorably. Paul Klipsch nailed the issue 70 years ago ... "What the world needs is a good 5-watt amplifier.". One or two might try it, but they won't leave it there. And soul. Art himself used 3 amplifiers for his auditioning. Not a thing wrong with JA's quasi-anechoic measurements, as posited. Yeah, this has always been the standard response --- look at how big and sensitive our product is, their cone movement, yada yada. AD's room was really not k-horn friendly and JA ran head-long into the difficulties of measuring a horn loaded loudspeaker designed for corner placement and relating those measurements to how the speaker is actually going to be used. Please reread the measurements. “ Nowadays speakers with horn-loaded woofers are extremely rare, but—trust me on this—nothing pressurizes a room like a pair of K-Horns with 15-inch bass drivers. One paragraph from Mr. Atkinson's measurement section interests me in particular: I wasn't too surprised by the Klipschorn's limited low-frequency extension despite its size. Keep it simple. Have a nice life in your incomprehensibly understood world. Bass Bins. Who wants a dinosaurus in the room? Given that a loudspeaker will exhibit a dozen key behaviors, its isolated amplitude response and related metrics naturally comprise an incomplete yardstick. This comment from the review made me laugh: "I think that maybe someone over at Klipsch really likes the word ‘tractrix.’ " Geoff A. J., California. The goal, according to Klipsch's website, is "to improve coverage and control of the key mid-frequency band. Recently, a reader reignited the flame by inquiring into the status of that review. Having smooth full height walls adjacent to the speaker is paramount IMHO. And without my intention, posters there said you didn't measure the Volti Rival speaker correctly. This shows the same information as a polar plot in what I feel is a more easily comprehensible manner. However, that wasn't possible. In his Stereophile review for April 13, 2019, Art Dudley reports that the Klipschorn "satisfied many of my long-standing longings and a couple I didn't know I had—for amazing sound way off-axis, and for big, beautiful pieces of old-school audio art in my listening room. Smaller direct radiating designs simply won't you there, end of story. If you want speakers that measure the way JA and others say a speaker should measure, then go buy some. ;-). They were playing some sort of experimental jazz I am not familiar with. Sure. I have made several speakers over the years and even an eighth of an inch movement between the drivers is quite audible. Regarding the amps sounding so different...perhaps the screws on the cases were set too tight or too loose? -If group delay and phase ever become reliably and commonly moored to sound the field will advance and DSP may cease being the conjectured wonder it is today. As I said, rather than publish polar plots, I show in detail a loudspeaker's dispersion in both horizontal and vertical planes. I turned to the guy next to me and saw that it was none other than Paul Klipsch! But that fades in comparison with Dick Burwen's system! The authority on good design is sound, even as annoying as the human element has become of late. Klipsch Klipschorn can almost knock down the walls and all music is presented with a live playing style that surpasses almost anything else. Many of the tests used to test loudspeakers have baselines that are subjectively derived. Combing the experience of audio pros reveals and confirms that historical audiophile preference has indeed identified good-sounding speakers and for very specific reasons, and not the current trend of what they do in directions other than at the listener. With heavy MDF cabinets and good engineering, you can have a resonance-free enclosure and excellent frequency response on and off-axis. : being capable of hitting at least 25Hz) may be the TH50, DTS10 & 20 and THSpud. ( god bless em ). It is a significant improvement to the tightness and control of the bass, as well as the definition and musicality of the upper bass (low midrange). But still have a set of Hereseys for parties. I expected the temporal performance of this speaker to be very poor and it is. I like the way they sound, and it's not worth it to me to change that sound so that the measurements look better. Thank you, reader. The corner still serves as an extension of the low frequency horn, There was a comment that said that the Voltis should have had their in-room response measured. You gotta own Klipsch at least once before you die, the people in Arkansas still make them right there in Hope and still answer the dam Phone when YOU call !!! The compendium of papers in their original form includes never-before-seen issues, hand-written drafts, and supporting images and diagrams. I would no more try to make a big horn speaker sound like a Tidal/Wilson/Sonus Faber/Magico speaker than I would try to make a Tidal/Wilson/Sonus Faber/Magico speaker sound like a big horn speaker. Then I swapped in the Luxman MQ-88uC, let it warm up for 15 minutes, played the track "Take a Chance with Me," and was stunned at the difference. At $549, the Klipsch RP-600M are capable of over-achieving with the right electronics. I don't say this lightly...I am an AES member.... Those measurements are not what you expect from a $15k speaker, www.hifinews.com/content/klipsch-la-scala-al5-loudspeaker-lab-report. This is a concept that I understand is popular in Tokyo. Natural-sounding dynamics. Hands On Review - Duration: 3:51. • When you are talking about a speaker like the KHorn, the room is part of the equation for its sound. Indeed, at the Klipschorn price point. Until then assumptions about DSP vs analog filters naturally remain just such conjecture. If your readers think it is, then that's fine. - Get a single middle speaker to complete the sound stage. The MQ-88uC uses push-pull pairs of KT88 pentode tubes, operated with some global feedback, to deliver 25Wpc in class-AB mode. Just wow! At my old house in Cherry Valley, small birds made their nests in the quince trees outside my window. JA revealed that in his testing as well. It seems I can't make a change for the better without also changing something for the worse: Every gain entails a concomitant loss. Reactions: Lp85253, drh3b and zieglj01. But the complexity of the system took something away that I missed and I went back to passive crossovers and a really nice tube amplifier and a simpler system and I enjoyed that a lot more. There are speaker designers who design and build speakers (that many customers love) with solid hardwood, rather than plywood or MDF, because that's the sound they are after, resonances and all. Was it ever a desire of theirs in the first place to make speakers creating the "VLF wave"? I get the feeling that Klipsch speakers want a lot of room. Klipsches have never been able to do it, their long sales history notwithstanding, while large-diameter sealed woofers have, with ease and no strain, given enough wattage, since day 1. The Kuzma 4Point's dedicated Crystal Cables tonearm cable connected to a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II phono stage, its signals flowing to either a Parasound Halo HINT 6 integrated amplifier, Shindo Allegro preamplifier with Shindo Haut-Brion power amplifier, or Schiit Ragnarok integrated amplifier, through a pair of Shindo interconnects. I did and I do. They played for me ZZtop La Grange at live levels. I read the thread. I'm hunting for a used pair of smaller Klipsch : Hersey, Cornwall, Forte ( the smaller, the better ). Like speakers, this is also fine for cars: We all more or less drive standard transportation (even though we bench-race everything but). I admit to enjoying that speaker more than the Klipschorn. Thanks for telling it like it is. Indeed a staggering horn setup by Mr. Burwen. Speaking of Klipsch, Altec and time alignment... 70th anniversary McIntosh MC2152 ......... Nope...you're not right..and Atkinson's measurements were subpar. Thanks to PWK's ingenuous folded "W" design for the bass horn, the last portion is the wall corners themselves. Klipsch Klipschorn. Said lightly. The original Klipschorn speaker was launched back in 1946 and remains in production today, a level of longevity that's unrivalled in the speaker market. Our cherry review sample had a lightness to it that softened the cabinet's imposing lines; given its vast size, black might be too much for many households. ..there is no constant-correlation between tests and sound. Life is too short to messing around with DSP and tri-amping. There were a lot of speakers to be found at these yard sales, also found Paradigm Titans and a/d/s L400's, but the Klipsch speakers were easily the most dynamic of the bunch. Yet for speakers there is an alternative to that school, and it doesn't hinge on brief demos of Accords vs Corollas to teams of amateur listeners in an office park. 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